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So I Married a White Girl…

June 19, 2007

For those of you who are familiar with Kanye West, you should know that violating this sacrament, held within the black community, will cause nothing but a sense of disdain.  In the song “Gold Digger,” Kanye pronounces to a black woman dating a successful black man that “when he get on he leave your ass for a white girl,” which is believed to be truism.  (See Charles Barkley, Tiger Woods, and just about every other professional athlete)  Now I know that Kanye West is not astute in the social sciences (albeit the most blunt, a la “George Bush does not like black people”), but he does touch on a point that I’ve noticed a lot among professional black men.  I wrote this post because it seems like every time I go back to the old neighborhood, girls that I either grew up with or went to high school with are now suddenly “interested” in what the soon-to-be esquire is doing during his personal time.  Yet, if I indicate that I’m not interested, the girl’s first response (and I mean literally the most common) is “Oh, I see you must really be loving Vanilla-Nova.” 

I’ve always been confused because I’ve dated all kinds of woman (and I plan on continuing to do that), but there’s a perception that if I were to settle down and marry a Caucasian woman than I’ve officially become a sellout.  So with this stigma in mind and my dating options in the profession pretty much limited to Caucasian woman, would my decision to marry a white girl be the result of my individual choosing or an unconscious submission to outside pressures.  Growing up I always got a lot of flack for being different.  I mean, I worked at Dechert LLP at the age of 16, I was the youngest guy in almost all my class, I had a 3.8 GPA in high school, and I wore a shirt and tie to school.  In a culture where negatives are positives, it wasn’t cool to be what some perceived to be “white.”  So, while dating a white girl might get you a side look, marrying one will surely get you called an Uncle Tom. 

We have come far as a society when it comes to the acceptance of interracial couples; however, that doesn’t mean that everyone is going to understand where you might find love.  (Just in case you didn’t know, Loving v. Virginia was decided only 40 years ago).  So I often find myself second guessing if I should approach a Caucasian girl that I may have a crush on or just generally think is cute because I don’t want to have to feel defensive if someone asks me how we met or when we started dating.  In the past, I felt like I had to walk around with a sign on my back explaining to the prying eyes and shaking heads that “No, I’m not a sell out and in fact I probably support more African-American causes than you and you’re entire family.”  But the moment that I respond like that is the moment that I’ve become just as bad as those who can’t understand why I don’t think it’s a big deal to date someone of another race.  How?  Because if dating someone irrespective of their race is truly natural or not a big deal, then I shouldn’t have an offhand response as to why I am dating her.  If I did have such a prepared response, you would be right for being suspicious. 

My thoughts on why successful black men date white women is simple; look at the numbers and the level of proximity.  An honest observation is that men are lazy and typically don’t venture out of their backyard.  So, if there are more white women than black women in professional schools, just based on the numbers it is conceivable for all black men to end up with a white woman.  In short, although Kanye was a little quick in his comments about George Bush, maybe he touched on a topic that is too big for him (and even myself) to tackle. 

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52 Comments leave one →
  1. Pennlawgirl permalink
    July 10, 2007 5:46 pm

    I’m sorry, but I think your whole post is a complete and utter cop-out. The number of black females in law and other professional schools far out number black males.

    Most, if not all of the black females have similar or better grades/scores and stories that you have. If a black man chooses to date a non-black woman he should take responsibility for his choice and not try to blame it on the lack of availability of other black professional females. We far outnumber you, yet somehow interracial dating is much more common with black men than black women.

    It’s not just a numbers game or black females would be engaging in it more since black men are basically nonexistant at certain levels… something else is at play

  2. N'vr date a black female permalink
    August 11, 2007 8:18 am

    For Pennlawgirl

    Let it be known that it is just this sort of sexist, competition anti-black male comments that have wedged many black men away from the abusive black woman. As for your comment about “professional college”, the numbers e do not “far” exceed that of black males. just because the racist have ‘ALLOWED’ you access to these places as a result of black women being complacent. However, it is clear that you are about $$$ and could careless about black men. Why did you even comment? Perhaps I should go one about black women? here are a few words to sum up your lot. Dirty, gold diggers, abusive, low class, ignorant, petty, low morals, anti-male, masculine, violent, control freak. Black women create their own hell. All of those men you ignored who you perceived as losers because they did not approach your “superior” level of achievement (brainwashing, complacent) as granted by the racist white colleges. You automatically assume that these men are no good. here is a little lesson for you. MEN fight systems, MEN overturn unjust societies, MEN create revolutions, MEN change the World. Perhaps some black men are doing this but black women are to stupid to notice? Instead, they just complain and collect their check at the end of the day. That is until Mr. Charley cuts it off. All it takes is on big explosion or a ‘crash of numbers’ and your World is gone. I’d like to see how many women far exceed men then in the so called professional world. What we be left of it. You are a jerk. keep your money, marry a white man YOU be nonexistent! Black men don’t want you because from your comment, you are already gone.

    • A Black Women married to a Black Man permalink
      November 11, 2009 6:15 pm

      Wow, you sound bitter. Maybe a black women is not what you need,
      maybe a little prayer is.

  3. girlexposed permalink
    August 15, 2007 4:02 pm

    To the OP: You are absolutely correct when you point out that historically, when a black man dates outside of his race he is considered a sellout. And the reason is because is sometimes appears that many blacks, particularly black men, upon becoming successful immediately shuck any ties to their race: they move out of the ‘hood, get a white spouse, etc… We can revisit the psychological effects of racism and how it is internalized, but that is not really the issue in your post.

    It sounds like your argument for dating outside of your race is simple: You’re not a sell-out, you’re just lazy. (I also find it ironic that after making your laziness argument and stating that you think dating outside of your race isn’t a big deal, you spend a lot of time justifying your decision.)

    My suggestion to you – own your laziness. This will enable you to do two things: first, you can stop agonizing over and racializing your dating choices, because it’s not about race; you are just picking the first woman to cross your path. Second, you will be able to save all of the energy you spend justifying your decision to date outside of your race because you recognize that you are too lazy to make the arguments anymore. It is a win-win situation. Good luck!

    To Pennlawgirl: If all of the black men in your proximity somehow less than you are, and are so hard to come by in the first place, you have two choices: date down or date outside the box. But make up your mind and then run with it, because complaining will get you nowhere. The OPs justification for his actions may be weak, but at least he’s honest. Also, is it fair to project your own decision to prioritize race in dating on other people?

    To Nev’r dated a black female: Your post is too disjointed, inflammatory and nonsensical to warrant a response. I sincerely hope that you are more thoughtful in your practice of law, if you are indeed an attorney.

  4. brndnsbruceesq permalink
    August 15, 2007 8:08 pm

    I think you make a good argument, but it’s not MY argument. When I discussed proximity, I was merely speaking in generalities by stating that men are lazy. (Which I truly believe). I felt like I was serving as a voice for those who may not take the time to speak for themselves. I was not speaking for myself because, well I’m not married and I don’t think it’s necessary for someone to elaborate on who they date, even to their parents. Thus, my remarks about proximity is only a hypothesis as to why most successful black men marry white women. Ask yourself this, if there was an attractive person of the opposite sex (albeit not of your race) right there, why would you venture to look for another companion just to appease someone elses prejudices? I wrote this post because I noticed that although there are a lot of attractive women in our profession, but if you want to find an ATTRACTIVE, successful black woman, well then you’ll have to do a little more digging because they aren’t as many. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t a lot of attractive black females. The truth is that most of them are already married or committed, hence, they’re not available. To be more specific on why black men marry outside their race would be ludicrous for a forum such as this. Furthermore, I’m not trained to give an adequate clear succinct reason why dating or marrying is considered to be a hot button topic. To me, the race of who you date is not important nor negotiable. You are attracted to who you are attracted to, simple as that.

    I do believe that Pennlawgirl just lost the whole point of this post. As a writer of this blog I wanted to strike up some type of controversy so people would engage into the larger issue of race relations. However, the only thing it has spawned was more attacking responses such as hers, which only validate the feelings of Nev’r Date a Black Female. I’m not saying either is right, but I can understand where Nev’r Date a Black Female is coming from because he is merely reacting to what he perceives as an attack on all black men by the harsh words of Pennlawgirl. However, I decided not to directly respond to either because I don’t believe in responding to people who post anonymously. If you feel that passionately about your remarks to write such a damning statement as you have, then at least stand by them like I have.

    • A Black Women married to a Black Man permalink
      November 11, 2009 6:23 pm

      Okay, I had the opportunity to run across this blog after having a

  5. August 17, 2007 12:28 am

    I don’t know Pennlawgirl, but I feel the need to defend her. Brandon argues that successful black men date white women because of convenience (numbers and proximity), and I think that Pennlawgirl is simply frustrated by such an argument. Her point is that successful, professional black women outnumber successful, professional black men; yet more successful, professional black men date outside of their race than their female counterpoints. So, there must be other reasons than convenience why successful, professional black men date white women.

    Well, at least you got what you wanted. People (including Pennlawgirl) are engaging in dialogues concerning race relations.

  6. LaidBackGuy permalink
    November 29, 2007 9:24 pm

    I think the post is pretty accurate. I just want an educated, attractive woman that I can get along with. As there are more white women than black women in this country, let alone this category of women, I end up dating more white women. Not to mention that because there so few black men in the successful, professional category I have a lot more white male friends than black ones. So when I meet other women through them, they’re usually white too. I suppose what pennlawgirl is really upset about is the fact that I as a black man, I am not showing more loyalty to the successful, professional black woman by actively seeking her out. The fact of the matter is that I personally just don’t care enough to do that. The race of the woman I date has no bearing on my happiness.

    As far as other factors at play I will certainly testify to the fact that white males are significantly less likely to date a black women, than white women are with black men. I haven’t done an official sociological study, but I was in a mostly white fraternity, and there were only a handful of them that I knew who would consider dating a black woman. They were real honest with me about it when I asked them. I don’t know how most black women feel about dating white men.

    As far as being labeled a sellout for dating/marrying white women and having the house in the burbs with a bunch of white friends, I say call me a sellout, I don’t care. I have a brother who was in college. He was more concerned about being called a sellout for hanging out with men on track to becoming successful, professional adults because most of them were white, than he was about cutting ties with his mostly black friends who were into some things that he needed to not be getting into. He is currently serving a 9 year jail sentence for armed robbery charges. I’d take being callled a sellout over that any day.

    I am proud to be a black man. I am proud of my african heritage, but I don’t have to limit my options for living a happy and fulfilling life to prove that to anyone, and I’m not going to.

  7. RD88ELW permalink
    December 10, 2007 12:54 am

    I definitely have had the same experience as the OP. On the subject of proximity, it wasn’t about how many black women there are to black men in the profession, its that either way, there are more white women, I think that needs to be clarified.

    There definitely is a stigma in the black community of a black male dating outside their race. It comes from multiple places, the older folks who would have been in danger of a lynching during their courting days for hooking up with a white girl (there have been some suspicious hangings dismissed as “suicides” in just the last decade very reminiscent of the past).

    The second stigma comes from black girls, who take kanye’s quote to be a fact, and see the trend from the one dimension of “black guy moves up and only wants white girls.” Some feel threatened as a species (metaphor).

    The stigma is strong enough to make you wonder if there’s something wrong with yourself for looking at white girls in particular. But then I think back and before highschool my school was all black and I had crushes and flings there. Thats just my personal experience, but I think it should really be a nonissue.

  8. ItsAstatusThing permalink
    January 3, 2008 11:34 am

    Skin color is just one factor affecting your status. That’s just how nature is. And nature is not unfair. Nature just is.

    Propagate your genes

  9. sandra permalink
    January 21, 2008 5:10 pm

    I have been dating a black guy for two years now, and he is an amazing man. However, there were some problems in our relationship, which we overcame. I am really happy that he eventually trusts me, and I am the first white girl he has ever been with. And this is his longest relationship.

    His last girl was a black girl and she cheated on him multiple times. I know other black ladies that cheat on their guys and I came to the conclusion that they just don’t appreciate guys enough. I could never in my life cheat on him.

    Also, there were couple of incidents when black girls flirted with my guy, and even backstabbed me. None of these worked, though, as our relationship is really strong. Also, I have noticed that so many black girls are jealous and angry when they see us together. Instead of them being moody and angry as well as complain and backstab white girls, I advise them to work on their personality, change attitudes and then someone will definitely come along.

    Hope that was useful.

  10. January 30, 2008 10:16 am

    “His last girl was a black girl and she cheated on him multiple times. I know other black ladies that cheat on their guys and I came to the conclusion that they just don’t appreciate guys enough.”

    Sandra, I hope you’re not an attorney as well, because your logic is beyond farcical.

    I’m a black woman attorney with more than a little contempt for these mens’ basis for their choices. Not the choices themselves, you understand — I date multiracially and although at one point, I would have preferred a “brother”, “brothers” like these made it sufficiently clear that they didn’t prefer me that I decided I needed to take a look at other men who had made it clear that they DID prefer me — but (although I must give the one “brother” credit for actually admitting his laziness) the RATIONALE for the choices.

    I think with all your rationalizing and side-stepping, you can forget about assuming the “credit to the race” mantle, though.

    I’m out.

  11. January 30, 2008 11:15 am

    I doubt if I’m capable of getting you to understand the ramifications of your proclivities, because it would appear that any empathetic abilities you have ever had have clearly atrophied.

    So perhaps this will help:

    http://racialrealist.wordpress.com/2006/09/07/should-black-men-be-more-honest-about-their-feelings-towards-black-women/

  12. rrr permalink
    February 6, 2008 8:22 am

    http://tfj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/12/3/230
    Physical Attractiveness as a Process of Internalized Oppression and Multigenerational Transmission in African Families

  13. Aliyah permalink
    February 15, 2008 5:29 pm

    the post was intersting, and i think it must be sometimes difficult for a black man who just happens to date women of other races. i feel that if you like someone and you connect with them, that is what matters.

    i am black myself and i don’t believe that we should enclose ourselves in our communities out of social propaganda or obligation, im not saying that it is not in our best interest to support and create black love, it is, but.. there is nothing wrong with finding it elsewhere also.

    the only thing in y our post that i didnt understand was how as a black man in the professional world you are surrounded by white women.. i would think as a professional man you would be surrounded by women period, black, white, asian etc. i am a black woman and actually most of my colleagues are other black women, whites, latina, asian etc. there are very few black men and that is something that jumps out at me.

    i dont know what industry you are in or whatever, and maybe that is the case there, but i don’t see how black people can’t meet other black people.
    the thing is, you don’t have to explain or justify your preference for w hite women if you have one. although it may seem more politically correct to say those things you said, it is just more real to say, hey i date white women and other races of women because i like them or because im open to that, whatever.

    i did agree about how blacks are stigmatized for our behavior and speech patterns, i got that alot growing up about being an “oreo” and i never understood that. black people generally are just not as open to new things as other races have been, i think it has alot to to with ambivelance and the unknown. for a long time we have not had these options, and now many of us don’t know how to feel about them. i don’t like to pry in people’s personal lives, whoever you date, marry, that is your business, not mine, i certainly don’t want anyone telling me who i can and should date. i just think some of us black folks need to be more honest about things. alot of this interracial dating is just people out there and being exposed to each other, meeting, falling in love, etc. some of it is just a preference, some of it is escapism from the black community and how we are percieved, we have soo much healing to do as a people. i think we can heal and still love/marry people from other ethnicities, of course! but i just think we have to have a more honest dialogue about those who are doing it for other reasons.

  14. chloe permalink
    February 20, 2008 1:22 am

    It might be more white women in professional schools than black women…but black women out muber black men in schools and colleges so what are you talking about. It is black women who can not find a good and reliable black man. millions of black men are in jail instead of school, black women are the ones who are getting college degrees taking care of home and still looking fly.
    So cut the crap… if a black man wanted a black woman he could find one we’re everywhere… if you want to date a white women fine! but don’t bring us down and try to say we’re not doing what we’re suposed to do. Black women are teaching young black boys how to be a man while black men are running the streets and making multiple babies with miltiple different women.
    PEACE

  15. Don't Hold Your Breath permalink
    March 4, 2008 3:30 am

    I am 40yrs old, my mother is part(Italian, Spanish, French, Irish, Scottish, English, German and Swedish) and my father is part(Spanish, African, Indian(Hindu), Italian and Greek). I have blue-green eyes, permantly suntanned skin, full lips and golden blonde hair. So where does that leave me??? Although I am college educated, work in the entertainment business and am finacially well off that doesn’t guarantee that professional black men find me desirable. Being involved in a high profile profession, I see a lot. Sadly most black women are perceived as gold-diggers and only wanting to get with a pro athlete, rapper, singer, or actor just to collect a paycheck. If I meet a wealthy Black male with a Black wife; nine times out of ten, she was with him before he got paid. After he gets paid, if you aren’t a Black woman who is in the business and they know that you have your own bank: you can forget about it!!!! Unless of course you are a striking mulatto, of Spanish heritage, Asian or Caucasian. While I do belive that everyone has a right to marry whomever they please; it makes me sick to listen to the way they perceive black women. Why is it that is perfectly okay for a Caucasian chick to be raised to believe that if a man isn’t able to completely provide for you no matter what his race he should be bypassed but if a Black woman is raised the same way she is labled as a gold-digger??? That isn’t right.

    It seems that as of late, more and more Black women are following in the Black man’s footsteps and crossing the road to not only date but marry outside their race. The only thing that really puzzles me about this is that why is it that when a wealthy Caucasian male marries a Black women she is in the cream of the crop, ie. college educated, lawyer, doctor, banker, executive, actress, model, singer?? (Think Halle Berry, Paula Patton, Rae Dawn Chong, Stacey Dash, Garcelle Beauvais: all in relationships with wealthy Caucasian men). But with most Black wealthy men when they date outside of their race as long as she is pretty and has a pulse that is all that they care about. She doesn’t have to have a college education, a good paying job, or even have a nice personality(trust me I have met some of them. As for the Derek Jeter types, don’t even bother, too egotistical to waste time with. To all the Black women hoping to get married into the A list crowd: Sadly, I say,”Don’t hold your breath and pray for a miracle.”

  16. March 20, 2008 5:41 am

    You are like an unattractive black man who seeks revenge on all the black women who rejected you growing up.

  17. May 16, 2008 7:35 pm

    So let me get this straight…

    If the lesson from this thread is to be believed,

    #1- Nobody ever dates ANYONE untill they’ve completed a post graduate degree, AND/OR have established themselves financially beyond any reasonable expectations.

    #2- Nobody is worth dating unless they HAVE completed a post graduate degree, AND/OR has established themselves financially beyond any reasonable expectations.

    #3- Nobody in the vast majority of the African-American community WITHOUT post graduate degrees or beyond reasonable financial establishment should DARE comment on lessons #1 and #2.

  18. mike1115 permalink
    May 28, 2008 12:05 pm

    I desperately want a smart and sexy black woman, but they do not really exist!

    I’m college educated and make very good money. I really enjoy life, and like to think of myself as a ray of light in a dark cold world. My problem is that there are very few black women who illuminate with the same infectious positivity. I want a woman that is charismatic, bubbly, and free of ATTITUDE! My woman must also come from a two parent house hold. A lot of black women are like rain clouds of negativity! I sympathize with black women because they endure a lot of struggle: growing up without fathers, and having to deal with the abundance of uneducated criminal black men.

    Black women your problem isn’t black professional men dating/ marrying white women; instead, your problem is the lack of quality black men that are on the same social-economic level as you are.

    Class not race! I’ve always felt a stronger connection with moderate white middle-class women because we normally have a similar upbringing. I also find lighter skin more attractive, and IMHO white women are more feminine. This is my choice and my truth.

    Black women need to date outside their race OR date down… Not down as in jailbird down, but maybe take a look at some lower-to-mid middle class hard working brothers that are good men.
    Definitely work on your personality.

    I love you all!!!

    Michael

    • October 27, 2013 10:53 pm

      So… if a black woman possess everything but not come from a two parent home she is vilified? Absolutely ridiculous. You think people can control who their parents are?

  19. wendy permalink
    June 15, 2008 8:09 pm

    I think that the fact Pennlawgirl comments offended so many is proof that what she said hit a nerve, a truthful one. She IS NOT lying when she mentioned that the black women outnumber black men in professoinal schools. I have heard that in every news cast i’ve heard on black enrollment in universities. (thats also true for white males as well, so dont get prickly) I just did a quick google search and confimed that in a few seconds. I attend University where I see that for every black male there are 10 black girls trying to get his attention. My point, simply that the arguement ” there isn’t enough black women on the professional level” is false. But to be honest I could care less if black men date women for money or power, which some do,not all, but some. You know why I don’t care because i’m getting my college degree, and will make something out of myself and am confident that other black women are doing the same as well.

  20. Lawboundgirl permalink
    July 5, 2008 4:28 am

    As someone who does not even buy into the myth of ‘black love’ and the ‘perfect black couple’ that used to be, I am highly offended by some of the posts written here about black women. Now, I know the topic was about black men selling out, but really………

    To THE OP, PennLawgirl did not lose the point of the post. She was telling you that your reasoning does not match the facts so that you can re-evaluate exactly why you have a particular preference. She cannot force you to re-evaluate, but presented you with the option of doing so. If the response that you expected was for her to tell you that as a black woman she is sorry for encouraging the stigma on black male interracial relationships then that would make you open to ego trips, but not the truth, which I hope you are hoping to find. As for your dating preferences, please don’t explain. Black women are not your mother, and therefore you do not need to justify to them or anyone else your dating preferences. Most of them do not care, they are just concerned with the impact that each black male interracial relationship will have on their personal quest to find a black man. Unlike you, many black men are not dating interracially because of laziness, but because of deep seated psychological issues (their mother immasculated them, their sister slept around, Tyquisha called them a nerd). Therefore, that ‘check’ ( are you a sellout, an uncle Tom?) on black men’s reasons for dating outside their race needs to be there for men like that, not for lazy men like you. Although, in the end, black women are most upset because they are trying harder than black men are to salvage, the ‘black relationship’, and I wonder how much of black men’s lack of desire to find a black woman stem from psychological scars.

    Personally, I am an attractive black female on my way to law school ( but still able to use reason and logic properly) and I am open to dating men of all races. I happen to be well educated and speak intelligently, and I find that most men attracted to me are from other races. Many of the black men that I have encountered ( educated and eloquent mind you) do not appear to share my moral values ( they sleep around, have a different girl on their arm everyday) or do not know what to expect of me and don’t care to find out ( will I be a b***, gold digger, am I easygoing like the white girls, or loud like Tyquisha? etc. etc.)Do I feel personally responsible for pushing them away? Not really. Do l feel collectively responsible as a black woman for pushing them away? Absolutely not. I view it as their own psychological/emotional trauma in how they relate to black women and I wouldn’t want it in my life anyway. You do not see masses of white men writing white women off because they can be rigid, weak, neurotic, but instead they have adapted to their strengths and weaknesses. It’s called love. Therefore, I view the black male exodus to white women as a simple sign of immasculinity (unable to confidently handle a variety of women) or maybe escapism ( unable to deal with reality). Best case scenario, this exodus is weeding out the men who are not adaptable/flexible, but with the men that it is leaving and the men that it is producing, I instead anticipate a race of black men whose worth and impact continue to depreciate. In the future, there may not even be quality black men for your mixed race daughters to date because the black men that are left will be thinking the same thing that you are about black women. Just pray that a non-black man will give her consideration.

    To some of the other men on this post who unlike the OP (I think?) have been driven away by black women’s attitude/personality to date outside their race, I say that you are better off doing that, than carrying your negative energy into a relationship with a black woman and expecting her to change to your liking. It is okay if you want to date a white woman, but to think that, that makes you qualified to offer advice to ALL black women who are not piquing your curiosity and telling us to change our personalities is rather unintelligent Mike 1115. It’s FUNNY that black men who know that they are not perfect themselves yet are still able to find love with other races, give black women advice about changing themselves to find love.

    Analysis:
    Mike 1115 quoted:
    “Black women need to date outside their race OR date down… Not down as in jailbird down, but maybe take a look at some lower-to-mid middle class hard working brothers that are good men.”

    First off, you are correct in saying that women need to date down because in being a highly educated woman who has a high salary, there is the risk that she will have to look for someone outside of her socio-economic level. Why? Because there are so few black men at the top, even if they were all dating/marrying inside their race. But you assume that highly educated women are looking only for financial compatibility. Sure they want someone whom they do not have to support with their paycheck, but most of them just want a man on their own educational and intellectual level. Because of the phenomena of masses of black men marrying outside their race, DATING DOWN means being in a partnership with a man who is not as intellectually stimulated and who does not share the same social network as she does. So yes, I think that educated black women are better off dating outside their race and leaving the uneducated black men to the uneducated black women.

    Mike 1115 quoted:
    “I also find lighter skin more attractive, and IMHO white women are more feminine. This is my choice and my truth.”

    This is the classic example of someone who has been influenced by standards of the west and is eager to project it onto others. If black women are less feminine, which I believe is untrue considering the west has a different idea of femininity than the east, what shall they do? Did God create them to have mannerisms that do not match their sexual identity. To the point, what is feminine is constructed by a culture as you will find a hispanic woman’s femininity lays in her curves/ her exotic hair, while an east asian’s lays in her delicate facial features and slim frame, etc. etc. Therefore by saying black women are less feminine, you are basically saying that their traits are not classified as feminine in the dominant society in which you live. The problem is not with black women’s femininity, it is with your expectation.

    Mike 1115:

    Black women your problem isn’t black professional men dating/ marrying white women; instead, your problem is the lack of quality black men that are on the same social-economic level as you are.

    Professional black men dating/marrying white women IS CONTRIBUTING to the lack of quality in AVAILABLE black men on the same social-economic level as black women are on. By the way, professional doesn’t mean that a man has himself together mentally or emotionally, but financially. There are many mentally unstable black men walking around with suits and ties on who are no good for women of any race. Some marry outside their race, some marry a black woman and make her wish she married outside her race too.

  21. N'vr date a black female Says: permalink
    September 8, 2008 6:46 am

    TO: girlexposed,

    You obviously are incapable of understanding my post, if you did, you would have actually communicated something. As opposed to the typical ‘trash the black man, I’m superior in my female intelligence’ reply. As far as being a sleazy attorney, which I guess is your profession. I do not engage myself in law, however, I have made history and have even met Prime ministers of foreign nations before. I doubt that you would believe me but whatever. I am not in the habit of telling lies.

    Anyhow, who gives a damn who dates who, there are more important issues to contend with these days. This who’s dated who crap has been recycled for so long since the 60′s actually. It just goes round and round in a circle. I do believe though that black men need to look out for themselves completely and seperate themselves from black women. Black women have utter contempt for black men. They are a primary source of sickness in the so called ‘black community’. The actions of the men are learned from the mother. Ultimately it is the mother who is at fault for much of the chaos. The ignorant actions of many young black men is further reinforced by women and their endorsements of such. It is taboo in this society to hold women -of any race- accountable for their actions. But time will dictate what will happen. No lie can live forever. Here is one for ignorant idiots $$$ worshipers like ‘girlexposed’.

    If men are indeed the reason for every conceivable ill in the world and the downfall of the ‘black family’. How is it that in a black man’s absence the children stray? How can a man out side of just leaving have such a profound negative affect? If the “strong black woman” who “doesn’t need a man” not raise a family is so superior and so successful in her ability to parent. Then how does the influence of a black man who doesnt event exist cause such trouble and ruin the ‘black family’. All fingers point back at the mother. Perhaps one day the hellish abuse, control and utter hatred that black women inject into the black family, especially the black boys will be revealed. The backlash against women in general has already begun anyhow. War itself is made from the hurt of men. The denial of true love and the abuse of a man’s heart.

  22. N'vr date a black female Says: permalink
    September 8, 2008 7:03 am

    To Sleazy law student:
    Lawboundgirl

    After you look away from your magnifying glass and stop aping the actions of your racist white counterparts. Take a Good look at yourself. The mere fact that you felt the need to express that you are attending ‘law school’ (which is a haven for the sleaziest of sleaze by the way) only demonstrates to most people that you are insecure in yourself. If you believe that your “financial security” and your degree are what define you. Then the truest sell out here is You. Your arrogant comments and the way in which you made them as if you are looking down on these black men. Is the very reason why they want nothing to do individuals like you. Please DO date outside of your race and find the ‘financially acceptable man” you seek. Like US defense officer Rice, indeed you will be a credit to your race. Proper Black men don’t want you except scum of your own sort. How dare you judge these men in such a way. But that is what you do, you are a woman, your job is to unfairly judge and feel superior in the process. Typical, I am the one who should study You and your textbook responses!

    I gotta get back to my work. I dont have any more time waste on this crap replying to crabs. Go have a menstrual cramp and think about how superior you are to men you JERK!

  23. Derrick permalink
    September 18, 2008 12:03 pm

    Ok folks, let’s get real here. While it is true that a lot of successful black men move out of the ‘hood and marry a non-black woman, let’s look at the cause instead of the symptoms.

    I’m not bragging, but I am 6’4, handsome, and smart. I was a good student in school and I was ignored by girls all throughout school. Of course, the fly girls didn’t want me, I expected that. But even the normal, regular girls wanted nothing to do with me. Many other successful black men that I know have also gone through this. Now, whenever I visit my hometown, I get approached by the same women that wanted nothing to do with me 15 years ago. Many of these women are not the attractive, lovely ladies that I previously knew. Now, they have bab(ies), stretch marks, damaged hair (from overuse of relaxers), oh and did I mention they also picked up 50 pounds, and maybe a disease or two?

    Why would I want that?

    The truth is that even if these black women didn’t have all of that baggage, I probably still would not want them. My thinking is simple:

    -What makes you think that you are good enough for me now, when I wasn’t good enough for you then?

    Too many black women love bad boys when they are young. Now, she only has bad boys to choose from or share with other black women.

    You made your choice.

    Suffer the consequences.

  24. wendy permalink
    September 19, 2008 12:48 pm

    The men on this post are so funny.

    “I’m not bragging, but I am 6′4, handsome, and smart. I was a good student in school and I was ignored by girls all throughout school. Of course, the fly girls didn’t want me, I expected that. But even the normal, regular girls wanted nothing to do with me. Many other successful black men that I know have also gone through this. Now, whenever I visit my hometown, I get approached by the same women that wanted nothing to do with me 15 years ago. Many of these women are not the attractive, lovely ladies that I previously knew. Now, they have bab(ies), stretch marks, damaged hair (from overuse of relaxers), oh and did I mention they also picked up 50 pounds, and maybe a disease or two”

    No you shouldn’t want that and thats not what any black woman is saying on here either. My problem is that your post DID NOT and I MEAN IGNORED the fact that the black women you described isn’t the only black woman out there. Thats the point the women on here are trying to make the men see. I do not relax my hair, have babies, i don’t believe in sex before marriage so im confident im disaese free, AND I am a black woman. So where does that leave me? By your definition of a black woman I should be a ghetto hoodrat slumy trash, yet i’m not, does that mean i’m not a black woman? I am a 20 year old biology student who believes in the Lord Jesus as her savior and wants to honor him with her all her mind, body, and heart. Yet sadly I am already getting caste into the “angry black woman” role by men like you and others who feel the need to villionize all black women whenever someone starts calling them a “sellout”. I don’t care if you or any other black man maries a white woman, half my uncles have and I love my extended white family to pieces, but leave my name out of your mouth. I have great respect for all my uncles because they are REAL BLACK men. Yes they have married white women, but they never have thrown me under the bus to escape the stigma of being called an “uncle tom”. When confronted with such ignorance they calmly explain to the person its none of their bussiness and walk away. Not the cowardly crap of what i’m seeing on here.

  25. diane permalink
    September 29, 2008 3:28 pm

    This is an ignorant discussion. Black men who want to be with white women are not the majority of Black men. The ones that do want white women do not find Black women attractive so just WRITE THEM OFF. I am disturbed by the ignorant comments of Black men who offer stereotyped descriptions of Black women. Thay are really mentally unbalanced and a true example of what living under white supremacy will do. Trying to change their sick attitudes is fruitless. But know this….if this counrty were to revert back to pre civil rigths era laws and policies all you white female loving negroes would be strung up somewhere for even looking to long at a white woman. Might I suggest that you white women lovers take a look at A SOILDER’S STORY & SCHOOL DAZE for some context as to your pathological thoughts.

    • Black Grad Student permalink
      December 31, 2011 11:26 pm

      Diane, would you turn your head and look the other way if I wanted to date you? A black graduate student. That is what I find to be the case when I am interested in sisters. I look at you, but do you “see” us? (Black male college students) I know white girls do. Love comes to those who are open to it. That is really the argument, isn’t?

  26. Tom permalink
    February 18, 2009 3:26 am

    I’m a black man and I married a white girl. I will forever regret this decision. If you’re proud of being black, do not marry a white girl – particularly the middle class white girl who is incapable of or unwilling to maintain relationships with anyone else who isn’t white. You will find yourself justifying your decision, racializing everything and defending your blackness. White middle class American women are generally naive, spoiled, weak in bed, conservative and just downright boring. It takes a lot of unnecessary energy to keep having to adapt your cultural behavior to white society. It’s not worth it in the end. Stay black. Black women are far more beautiful, have more common sense, have a strong will and are intellectually more interesting.

  27. cnewberry permalink
    March 19, 2009 4:10 am

    Tom, your funny for that one. I’m educated (MBA), black and I embrace the diversity of the world. Ya’ll need to travel, cause it’s bigger than black and white. Good discussion on this thread, it’s all been said except for this. All of ya’ll got too much time on your hands. Brothers, please go find a white, mexican or vietnamese girl to love. If you find a black one too, get her number for me. Atleast have some fun while you’re selling your soul! Don’t trip, I’m only being real.

  28. April 9, 2009 6:20 pm

    Lawboundgirl writes:

    >>>”Many of the black men that I have encountered ( educated and eloquent mind you) do not appear to share my moral values ( they sleep around, have a different girl on their arm everyday) or do not know what to expect of me and don’t care to find out ( will I be a b***, gold digger, am I easygoing like the white girls, or loud like Tyquisha? etc. etc.)”

    Why do you think that is, LBG? Because that’s the strategy that WORKS. You explained it yourself in the passage above:

    >>>”Although, in the end, black women are most upset because they are trying harder than black men are to salvage, the ‘black relationship’, and I wonder how much of black men’s lack of desire to find a black woman stem from psychological scars. ”

    Of course it’s psychological. You learn from your environment as you grow and develop. Children are observant. If they see that black girls and women are sexually attracted to thugs, playas and ballers, while at best, “friendzoning” guys who exhibit scholarship, congeniality, piety and intellectualism, which direction do you think will appeal most to a hormone-addled teenaged boy?

    Let’s be real, here. I grew up in the suburbs. I went to a predominantly white school. There were cliques amongst whites, and they had their fair share of thugs, playas and jocks…but there wasn’t an authenticity test. You didn’t cease being “white” because you read a book, or joined the debate team. You weren’t “racially invalidated” because you made the honor roll, or took college prep course. In fact, the opposite happened in my school. If you were a smart white guy who did well in school, there were groups of smart white girls who were dying to date you, pocket pal and all. Most of the white women who chased bad boys in school eventually figure out who the best option for a husband and father to their children will be after trial and error.

    This just wasn’t the case for black kids in my school. Even college-bound sisters wanted thugs, playas or ballers. Sure, down the road, after many of them get where they want to be professionally, it’s still a problem for many of my black women friends. Many just don’t seem to find “nice” black men sexually attractive, and if those men aren’t clocking six figures, they’re “irrelevant.”

    And you ask black men about psycological scars?

    –Cobra

  29. April 13, 2009 9:52 am

    This is so beautiful, it’s cry worthy. What happened to Luther’s dream? I know its probably not your dream so I will leave that out. From the structure of this forum, I believe it’s an american thing. Well, it’s here in the UK too and I find it quite ridiculous. I am a black african man married to a fabulous woman. My goodness, she rocks my world.

    In the begining, there were big Issues about her back ground and from her people about mine. Not from us, mind you. But from friends and some family. I was(and I believe she was) getting advice from half wits who could not hold a relationship together if you stuck handles on it. We are doing well together, 4 kids later and we have , and those close to us, have got over that African Jamaican division.

    My wife once asked, if I would have married a white woman. I said, I would have always married a great woman who rocked my world. Which ever way she was packaged was irrelivant.

    America, Land of the FREE? You at times suprise me how truely GHETTO you can be. Before you jump on your high horse, ghetto is purely secclusion. If you live in the richest area and have no connectivity, understanding or knowledge of the world outside yours, sorry brothers and sisters, that IS Ghettoization. Sorry I took you on a ride but, how many of you horizon expanders will look for love in the African or West Indian -if colour is your limitation? However if love and compatibility is your thing, then look for love where you find it. Please don’t take your advise on compatibility from whoever the latest hip-hop artist is. Break it down to basics. They are but poets who ply their trade to a rhythm. They are none the wiser, just more eloquent. Eloquence does not = wisdom. My grandmother was wise but didnt talk too much.
    Do you think all these hard as nuts rappers go home to call their wifes, partners and whatever bytches and Whores? I dont think so. I really dont think so. The sole purpose of their verbal dexterity is at times, only to make an extra buck. Mr Bad Ass Rapper does not at home, call Mrs Bad Ass rapper a hoe. (unless he wants to give her half his income) yet we take their slanted social commentry as truth. Our boys grow up trying to pantomine their lives on the big screen. Our girls aspire to guys who aspire to dressing badly and talking like thier mouths should make a good replacement for a trash can. We set up a warped stereotype in words, screen and stage and are suprised our people aspire to the bright light. And you know ahat is laughable on this forum, least I digress for too long? Some of the contributors are just here to give this an added twist. Possibly with an even more hostile agenda. to turn brother against sister. Well done whoever you are. Great job.
    Listen America, Love who you want and let the world adjust to it. After all, you dont have to take the world to bed.

    Stay Beautiful, Stay Strong, Stay FREE. To paraphrase Marley, None but ourselves can free our mindsets.

  30. April 13, 2009 10:06 am

    Oh and to add another bit, what ever you are running from-except for skin colour- you will find in which ever people you choose to find love with. ONE LOVE

  31. A Black Women married to a Black Man permalink
    November 11, 2009 6:46 pm

    Okay, I had the opportunity to run across this blog after having a converstation with my Husband. Whom I may add is a black educated man. He holds a PHD in Education from Wayne State University in Michigan. I am a successful Black Women, holding a MBA from the University of Michigan and we have been married for 6 years. I met my husband in High School, and stood by his side till this day and forever. I believe Pennlawgirl makes alot of sense in her blog, and truly providered this blogger with a comment he seems to not be able to handle. To the blooger, does it really matter why you chose your wife( a white women) white, black or asian. She’s the women you chose, and there is no reason you should ever try and justify your actions. Because up under the skin, were all the same species.

    After 6 years of marriage, me and my husband decided to have a child. I am currently 5 months pregnant with a baby boy. I want my son to marry and enjoy his life with whom ever he feels is worthy.

    I am pregnant and I may sound a little emotional which I am, but it hurts me to read post such as these. And for N’vr date a black female, the disrespect you’ve shown Pennlawgirl is just unacceptable. What I don’t agree with is disrespect. You may not want to marry, or even date a black women, but please still show us the respect we deserve because without black women, the black man would not be here. Remember your mother is a black women.

  32. A relative of N'ver date a Black woman permalink
    January 15, 2010 8:15 am

    This entire thread is profoundly ignorant, sexist and viciously hateful towards black males and black people in general. There is no discussion here. Only hate, a promotion and bragging of indivduals material accomplishments and arrogance. Its quite sad but clearly opens my eyes to the fact that black americans are dead. Quite literally speaking as far as their souls are concerned. Yes, very dead. Racism has driven black americans quite insane. Too bad, really too bad. There was some hope once that things could change.

    As for “A Black Women married to a Black Man” Indeed without a blac kwomen there would be no blalck man but without a black man there owuld be no black woman. Please take note that females aren ot superior to men. Nor are men subserviant to them. You reveal your thinking and indeology in your statement that comes from a sense of superiority. That is not correct. Perhaps you should accept that we are all human beings interdependent on each other for our very existence. Let the go of the white feminst bull. It’s poison.

    Lastly, I have always found it interesting how far black men are enslaved. here is a dicussion about the ‘right’ of blac kmen to date or marry women of other ethnic groups. So have it that blac kmen dont even have the right to chose their own mate. Yet white males can do as they please with little to virtually no protest. How interesting. Yet, its black women who are “oppressed”, I see. Everyone seems to agree on hating black men and or putting them down. Seems like every one enjoys kicking black men when they are down. Well, in madness there is always a scapegoat. And the ultimate one is in the white house. When he trips, all ofth black women, racists and whoever else can get thier final kicks in. At least the jews met their end with some degree of dignity. Black men dont even have that. Stripped of everything and spat on by the entire world. Look in black mens eyes and you can see it. The same look.

  33. January 28, 2010 6:00 pm

    i am 30 single from Pakistan NWFP .
    i want marry now.

  34. josh permalink
    March 28, 2010 9:19 pm

    Umm that’s because you are a sellout. Uncle Tom

  35. wellucancallme european.. permalink
    June 1, 2010 10:04 pm

    Well, I am really shocked.. I am a young married to a black/mexican/philipino american student from germany. Lately Ive been thinking a lot about what i will have to face once we are gonna to the US within the next couple of years..

    Here in Germany, we dont say “hey that black female or that white female”.. no we actually say “turkish person or indian” or whatsoever.. Well, my point is why do you people from the US have to minimize yourselves to ur skin color??? I dont care where you are from I will judge by your behaviour and not just by your skin color..

    Stop stereotyping people. We are all inidividuals and not just determined by our social background. Okay the gene structur is playing a role, too.. But not all black women are gold diggers as well as not all white females are

    “White middle class American women are generally naive, spoiled, weak in bed, conservative and just downright boring”..

    This right here is very very ignorant and intolerant.. how can u blame a whole “race” (i guess darwin was wrong….hahah) for the wrong behaviour of one person????!!!!!!

    Please stop stereotyping and open ur mind for the world!!

    We human beings come in all color and just because we got the same skin color does not mean we are alike..

    oh and just yall know i am not a law student, i go for psychology.

  36. Ved permalink
    July 14, 2010 5:59 pm

    This can go on forever. I don’t care how black men perceive black women, that doesn’t put a strike in what appeals to your eye. You date white women because you find them more attractive.

    It’s okay for a controlling white woman to call shots because she’s naturally sybmissive, so doesn’t faze you. It’s okay for them to be lower class because they have that natural-white-potentail- fuck out of here with that.

    You were simply a victim of what the old-timer-whites predicted for us in our future. You prved them right. This is what they wanted, and this is what they got- black men to not even find attraction within their own race.

  37. cat williams permalink
    October 6, 2010 9:28 am

    I lost my Mother in 2007. I just lost another child due to miscarriage in which I delivered a small human being into a toilet, my husband has to fight tooth and nail to even talk to the kid’s he had with his ex-wife because she is mad he moved on after she had a baby with another man while she was married to him, stole 22,000.00$, lost the home he bought for their family and got their cars reposessed. My kid’s father from my previous marriage almost never takes the time to call his kids much less remember a birthday and mail a card to them.

    So now you know some of the bulls**t that happens in my life. I know that there are many people with much more difficult problems.

    What is my point????????

    My point is that life is waaaay to short to worry about interracial marriages much less waste time making stupid points about stupid subjects.
    I am half white and half native indian and my black husbad and I are happy. We are happy because in this storm called life we have found love between us. We have found shelter in each other and that’s what makes our lives better.

    If I took offense or heed to people who try to find something to talk about because they don’t have a thing going on in their life. Could you imagine what kind of c hildren I would raise if I got angry at every black female who tried to stare my down or make stupid comments because I am married to a black man and I “took good black man from a good black woman.” If I did that then I would raise black females to grow up disliking other black women. That is stupid.

    Life is grievous at best so stop worry about and talking about stupid cr*p because it is pointless.

    Find joy in your life like today was your last day and stop asking and answering questions that when asked and answered are designed to make you appear intelligent and educated. If you were smart you would shut the hell up and take care of things that really matter.

    I am sure that this answer will get a firestorm of “witty, intelligent, and deep” answers so have at it and start saying what you will. Put me in my place and try to “educate” me on “issues!!!”

    Sorry for the spelling and or grammatical errors!!!

    • YAW permalink
      December 7, 2011 6:10 am

      Beautiful. Well written. I thought land of the free meant free to think and free to choose who you are and who you choose to be with.

  38. Dustin Jack permalink
    November 17, 2010 10:08 pm

    Hey,

    Bruh there is one simple response to your message. Marry who you love. Black women have their pro’s and con’s just like any other type of woman (if you want to stereotype). With that said dont worry what others think. Do what fits you and your lifestyle. At the end of the day you know what you do for your community and or the African community. I too support those and ONLY those who want something out of life and that’s it! I really don’t care about the remarks of others because only GOD can judge me. I too am looked as “different” but this brand has also made me a successful young black male. To each it’s own brother but if I were you I’d do what fits me best. Off the record I hope more black men and women pick the interracial route. This would slowly kill all racially and stereotypic motivated thoughts. That’s just my opinion but like I mentioned to each it’s own!

  39. ddsharper permalink
    December 16, 2010 5:10 am

    I believe this is posted by a shill. check out the youtube video, gov’t spent 4.7 million youtube shills. no black man would write this. think about it.

  40. November 23, 2011 4:45 pm

    I need aresponsible lady that can show me the best of her love,true love and can trust

  41. MICHELL RONAMIKE permalink
    January 31, 2012 12:44 pm

    I NEED A RESPONSIBLE WHITE AND BEAUTIFUL LADY AT THE AGE 16-22 YEARS TO BE MY SWEETHEART, and who can show me the best of her love,true love and can trust

  42. Tlaf permalink
    February 8, 2012 12:20 am

    Chloe, I am a happily married black man married to a black woman. I am also father two two wonderful children. I live in a large Midwest city with a huge gang problem. Whenever I see the problem black boys on the news and in the courts, they are overwhelmingly from single parent households headed by women. This is a big problem in the black community because too many black women think like yourself, that you can raise a boy from boyhood through manhood. You cannot! It takes a man to show a boy how to become a man much like it takes a woman to show a girl how to become a woman. Not saying it’s impossible but….

  43. August 27, 2012 8:25 pm

    It doesn’t matter who you marry as long as you’re happy. Black man, Black woman this is not the 1700′s, 1800″s or the early 1900′s to the 1960′s. If we must strive in this country we have to change the way we think and act. I see to many times a White man dating/married to a Black woman and Black men are saying he’s down. Down on what? Cause he talks like, dress likes, and listens to R&B and rap? Who are we really kidding here. But as soon as a Black man is a CEO or something that not every Black man is, goes to the opera, or likes going to plays we say p%#k a#$, this brother is a sell out. And its the same for a Black woman with the same interest. Its not all the time about money, or what job we have. We are confused as a race, and that’s really why some choose not to date within there race. Cause we are simply looking for someone who likes the things they like, and the majority of the time alot of Black women are not into that. Is it wrong no its just what makes you happy.

  44. September 9, 2012 4:27 am

    You actually make it seem so easy with your presentation but
    I find this matter to be actually something that I think I would never understand.
    It seems too complex and very broad for me. I’m looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!

  45. November 23, 2013 2:28 pm

    White girls are beautiful and attractive. However, black guys are honest and good too. One thing about Black men, they are honest and strongly in bed. Most of Black guys treat a woman with full respect. They are friendly and loyal to relationship and marriage. They believe in God and try to be good ones. They are intelligent.

  46. December 8, 2013 8:44 am

    I am single man I stay Mogadishu Somalia I shall wait good Answer

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